Sent: 01 April
2019 10:13
To: Roeland Suys
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
To: Roeland Suys
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Hi Roeland,
We still need to answer the initial issue
of if my frame is ok to use (or ok to sell). I have yet to have an answer
or suggestion from you as to what has caused the damage to my crank. Is
it simply a faulty or damaged BB cable guide, or a bigger issue?
Kind Regards.
Sim
CMI (Cycling Management International)
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
From: Equipe CMI
Sent: 27 March 2019 11:25
To: Roeland Suys
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Sent: 27 March 2019 11:25
To: Roeland Suys
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Hi Roeland,
Here’s a reminder of the timeline for
you.
-Bike Purchased Feb 2018
- Giant shop calls Giant AUS for advice
on what BB to use to install a Rotor Crank (information later confirmed by
other shops and distributors)
- Giant shop installs
- 11 months later, cable rub on crank
axle discovered
- You were contacted to offer information
as to the cause of this issue.
As of yet I still have not been offered
an explanation as to why the cable is rubbing on the crank: is it due to a
cable guide defect, due to a frame defect, or an issue Giant is discovering and
would gain from making changes for in the future.
Thanks for your response.
Sim
CMI (Cycling Management International)
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
From: Equipe CMI
Sent: 25 March 2019 12:13
To: Roeland Suys
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Sent: 25 March 2019 12:13
To: Roeland Suys
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Roeland,
“Whoever installs
non-original components is responsible to ensure compatibility and
functionality prior to using the bike again.”
What you seem to fail to understand, is
that this above action WAS undertaken and no compatibility issues were
mentioned by Giant!
Thank you for not brushing this off once
again.
Kind Regards
Simeon Green
CMI (Cycling Management International)
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
From: Roeland Suys
Sent: 25 March 2019 06:20
To: Equipe CMI
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Sent: 25 March 2019 06:20
To: Equipe CMI
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Hi Simeon,
Thanks for your email,
Despite terminology used and technicalities
discussed in the previous emails, Giant Bicycles can not be held responsible
for modifications from the original condition of the bike and third party items
fitted. Whoever installs non-original components is responsible to ensure
compatibility and functionality prior to using the bike again.
We have discussed this matter with our
internal customer service team, Giant Sunshine Coast and our global after sales
department. Giant will not be replacing any parts or reimbursing you for any
costs you have incurred due to your installation of the Rotor Power crankset.
I would like to inform you that this will be
the last communication we can send you regarding this issue but will be
available if there are any other questions you have.
Please also find below the excerpt from our
user manual for your information.
Regards,
Roeland Suys I ASQA Manager I Giant
Bicycle Co Pty.Ltd.
From: Equipe CMI <cmicycling@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, 16 March 2019 12:48 AM
To: Roeland Suys <rsuys@giantbikes.com.au>
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Sent: Saturday, 16 March 2019 12:48 AM
To: Roeland Suys <rsuys@giantbikes.com.au>
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Hi Roeland: As further information
regarding the fitting of the cranks at Giant Sunshine Coast. They were
fitted on Feb 22nd 2018, I can’t remember for sure but I don’t think
Ian was there that day, but Justin was.
CMI (Cycling Management International)
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
Hi Roeland,
I hope you are well. It has now
been 10 days since your last communication and as previously expressed it is
disappointing that the customer has to actively chase you up on this issue.
In the meantime I have taken the liberty
of contacting a number of Giant distributors, including Giant USA, Giant NZ,
Giant HK, Giant South Africa, and Giant UK, specifically asking them what type
of BB/Cups I can use on my Giant TCR ADV Pro 2018 to install a Rotor 3D+.
Not a single one of them mentioned a “compatibility” issue, with a couple of
them directly sending me links to Rotor’s own page and to the BB/Cups I have in
fact used. I am obviously more than happy to share these emails with you
and whomever else it may concern.
We now have a bigger issue on our hands seeing
as the “compatibility” excuse no longer holds water, let alone your assumption
that I should have somehow, miraculously known about it when Giant AUS didn’t.
We are now in a situation where my frame is arguably faulty; meaning we
need to find a solution to both my damaged crank AND to the frame!
I would ask that you please take this
seriously and take it upon yourself to resolve the issue and communicate
developments with me without my having to prompt you for responses.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Kind Regards
Simeon Green
CMI (Cycling Management International)
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
Hello Roeland.
Thank for your reply however I am afraid
this is unacceptable. As mentioned we did call Giant Australia from Giant
Sunshine Coast regarding fitting the rotor and were not informed of any
compatibility issue. The crank was installed by myself in Giant Sunshine
Coast (where I worked), however GSC's responsibility for this is irrelevant as
Giant Australia did not inform us, or know of any compatibility issues when
specifically asked.
Giant Montauban also regularly fit Rotors
and have no knowledge of any compatibility issues. You clearly stated in
a previous email that this is a "compatibility" issue thus admiting
you (the brand) were aware of the issue and that it is not a fault with my
specific frame. If your own dealers and distributors are not aware of common
and known compatibility issues with your products, this is not the
responsibility of the paying customer to bare the brunt of your company's lack
of knowledge of its own products.
Also as previously stated, I would expect
to see a "recall" style information blast to all of your dealers and
customers informing them of this apparently known compatibility issue.
You have made adjustments in the past for
poorly designed or engineered issues such as the bare cable rub on the inside
of the headtubes of the first Propels, as well the repeated issues with the
"v brake" issues on the propels once again.
From a customer service standpoint you
cannot accept that the end user be responsible for your design errors or lack
of communication of known compatibility problems. It is also somewhat
disappointing to say the least, that having spent money of a product of yours,
I am currently 1) unable to ride it inspite of having purchased an item in
order to ride it, and 2) I am having to take on the responsibility of continued
follow up communication to get this resolved.
I am afraid we will have to come up with
an actual solution to this and not a mere dismissal. Also please remember
that it is in your best interest to make provissions for other customers,
dealers and distributors to avoid such issues in the future.
Awaiting a solution.
Kind Regards
Sim
CMI (Cycling Management
International)
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
Hi Simeon,
As we cannot make a definitive list of what third party items are
compatible with our bikes and which ones aren’t, it comes down to the
authorised Giant dealer that serviced and builds the bike to check this. We
discussed this issue with Giant Sunshine Coast however they believe that the Rotor
BB and crankset was not fitted by them in store. Unfortunately we can not cover
any damage due to non-original parts added to any Giant Bicycle by other than
an authorised Giant Bicycles dealer.
We do regret the damage to your power meter but apart from raising a
replacement discount for any Giant parts you would like to purchase through a
Giant dealer, there is not much we can do here.
It could be worth discussing with Giant
Montauban if they have any solutions in terms of fitting the Rotor crank set
without damaging frame or crank set.
Please let us know if you have any further questions.
Regards,
Roeland Suys I ASQA Manager I Giant
Bicycle Co Pty.Ltd.
From: cmicycling.com <cmicycling@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 4 March 2019 6:00 PM
To: Roeland Suys <rsuys@giantbikes.com.au>
Subject: Re: TCR Cable issue.
Sent: Monday, 4 March 2019 6:00 PM
To: Roeland Suys <rsuys@giantbikes.com.au>
Subject: Re: TCR Cable issue.
Hi Roeland,
I'm hoping there's been a resolution to this issue that you can keep me
updated with.
Thanks.
CMI (Cycling Management International)
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
Le lun. 25 févr. 2019 à 11:47, Equipe CMI <cmicycling@gmail.com>
a écrit :
Hi Roeland,
I’m wondering what news there is either
via the shops in question or possibly from the Giant engineers regarding either
the resolution of the damaged crank by a Giant product or the design flaw or
alleged lack of compatibility of certain parts with your products.
Hoping for a rapid resolution of the loss
of equipment incurred.
Kind Regards.
Simeon Green
CMI (Cycling Management International)
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
Hi,
Initially at Giant Sunshine Coast,
Mooloolaba Australia, also in Giant Shop Montauban, France (my current Giant
dealer of choice) who fit many Rotor cranks to Giant bicycles and should
probably be made aware of this non-compatibility issue ASAP (along with every
other dealer and customer)
Thanks for looking into a possible rapid
solution.
Simeon
Hi Simeon,
Thanks for your reply.
Can we please ask what dealer fitted the Rotor Power crank and we can look further into this issue.
Thanks,
Regards,
Roeland Suys I ASQA Manager I Giant
Bicycle Co Pty.Ltd.
Error! Filename not specified.
From: Equipe CMI <cmicycling@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2019 9:46 PM
To: Roeland Suys <rsuys@giantbikes.com.au>
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2019 9:46 PM
To: Roeland Suys <rsuys@giantbikes.com.au>
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Hi Roeland,
That is exactly the problem. As I
mentioned I called Giant (from a Giant shop I was working in) to find out what
BB to use on the frame, and at no point was I informed that Giant TCR
mechanicals are not compatible with a Rotor crank, and nowhere was that
mentioned at time of purchase (remember I also work in a Giant shop). As
I’m sure you can understand this lack of compatibility of Giant’s, either as an
original design shortfall or as a later revelation is not the responsibility of
the client. So even if I can potentially understand Giant not wanting to
do anything with my frame, we still need to resolve the problem of my
powermeter/crank having been damaged by your product (not my responsibility nor
the crank manufacturer’s)
So if you could get back to me with a
solution for this problem ASAP that would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Sim
Hi Simeon,
Your Rotor power meter is not compatible with the mechanical shifting on
your Giant TCR frame.
We can only recommend moving back to a 24mm axle crankset or
alternatively moving to electronic shifting where cables can be routed around
the crank axle.
Please let us know if you have any other questions
Regards,
Roeland Suys I ASQA Manager I Giant
Bicycle Co Pty.Ltd.
Error! Filename not specified.
From: Equipe CMI <cmicycling@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 12 February 2019 4:06 AM
To: Roeland Suys <rsuys@giantbikes.com.au>
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Sent: Tuesday, 12 February 2019 4:06 AM
To: Roeland Suys <rsuys@giantbikes.com.au>
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Hi Roeland,
I was just wondering what the latest news
is regarding resolving this issue?
I’d like to get it resolved ASAP and have
full functioning use of the crank and powermeter.
The frame is less of an issue for me
personally but obviously something you guys will need to sort out internally /
for the future.
Cheers
Sim
Hi again Roeland,
Thanks for the reply. As you say,
that is what I feared, there are some compatibility issues due to the design
(or design flaw) in the cable routing, which is not made clear or public when
purchasing a Giant bicycle. And seeing as Giant is the world’s biggest
bicycle manufacturer hopefully your designers can make some modifications
rapidly for future users.
In my case I do not like Electric
groupsets and would certainly not see moving to one as an “upgrade”. I
also fail to see how spending money on an electric groupset, or moving to a
24mm axle would help fix my currently non-functioning powermeter. I would
also point out that the TCR ADV Pro frame is not sold as a Di2 only frame, and
was in fact purchased with a mechanical groupset, so moving to Di2 (or etap) is
not a solution but a “workaround”. I know many people use Rotor cranks on
Giant bikes (and as previously stated I called Giant AUS to see what BBs could
be used to install a Rotor crank and was never told there were any
compatibility issues between Giant Bicycles and any particular parts
manufacturer (nor have I had any issues with any other manufacturer for that
matter). For now I have had to move over to a different frame brand to be
safe. My partner also has a Giant, and I have moved her off her rotor
cranks to a 24mm for the time being.
The question is, how can we sort out the
current issue of:
- My powermeter damage due
to the cable routing design
- What to do with this
current TCR frame for the future
I hope this information can at least help
the brand in terms of product development; also if this compatibility issue is
one Giant is aware of, retailers and clients should be made clearly aware of
it.
Thanks again.
Looking FW to hearing from you.
Sim
CMI (Cycling
Management International)
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
Error! Filename not specified. Error! Filename not specified.
Hi Simeon,
Unfortunately the open construction of the Rotor BB and the 30mm axle
width is not compatible with mechanical cable routing inside the TCR Advanced
framesets. Due to the cable tensions, changing the angle of the cables will
only result in poor shifting.
We can only recommend moving back to a 24mm axle crankset or
alternatively upgrading to electronic shifting where cables can be routed
around the crank axle.
Please let us know if you have any other questions
Regards,
Roeland Suys I ASQA Manager I Giant
Bicycle Co Pty.Ltd.
Error! Filename not specified.
From: cmicycling.com <cmicycling@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, 2 February 2019 11:26 PM
To: Roeland Suys <rsuys@giantbikes.com.au>
Subject: Re: TCR Cable issue.
Sent: Saturday, 2 February 2019 11:26 PM
To: Roeland Suys <rsuys@giantbikes.com.au>
Subject: Re: TCR Cable issue.
Hi Roeland,
As a further update do the situation: I have tried a couple of
modifications to see if we can come to some sort of solution.
- Installed a different Rotor
crankset to see if the situation repeated itself
- Put in a new cable and new
plastic sheeth around it.
- Inserted a small bit of plastic
under the BB cable guide to try and change the angle of the cable a little
to prevent it from rubbing the axle.
After 2 rides there are marks on the axle of the new crank.
I will point out that while working at a Giant shop in Australia (the
same shop I got this current bike from) I called Giant to ask what types of BB
they knew about that would enable fitting a Rotor crank, and at no point were
we told that Giant bikes are not compatible with that, or any other bicycle parts
manufacturer.
As it stands this 2018 TCR Pro 1 frame is now totally useless to me, and
I am out a powermeter (and a crank). I have now organised a different
frame to get me through my immediate needs for the next few weeks, however as
I’m sure you can understand, the uselessness of the TCR Frame to me (although I
could obviously resell it with a warning against using certain parts on it and
hope to use the money to purchase a different bike) is quite disheartening, and
the damage created to the powermeter is unacceptable. At least I can find
some solace in knowing that this situation may be of use to you in term of
improving or modifying the product’s design and innovation.
I look forward to hearing from you with any possible solutions or
information.
Thanks again.
Sim
CMI (Cycling
Management International)
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
email: info@eurocyclingtrips.cc
Tel: +33635971662
www.cmicycling.com | www.eurocyclingtrips.com
Error! Filename not specified. Error! Filename not specified.
From: Equipe CMI
Sent: 29 January 2019 08:02
To: Roeland Suys
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Sent: 29 January 2019 08:02
To: Roeland Suys
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Hello.
Yes of course, it is a rotor with their rotor universal BB. Which
I have also run on a Propel in the past.
Can’t say I’ve ever heard or seen that Giant frames cannot be used with
any specific parts or components (and that’s having worked in Giant stores)
Thanks
Sim
On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 12:31 AM Roeland Suys <rsuys@giantbikes.com.au>
wrote:
Hi Simeon,
Thanks for your email and sorry to hear about the issue with your TCR.
Can we please ask what crankset/bb you are running? The bikes come
standard with a SRAM or Shimano spindle sleeve that protects the crank spindle
from any cable rub. When running open BB and different crankset, it is
important to check the clearance or protect the cables.
Regards,
Roeland Suys I ASQA Manager I Giant
Bicycle Co Pty.Ltd.
Error! Filename not specified.
From: Equipe CMI <cmicycling@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 27 January 2019 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Sent: Sunday, 27 January 2019 11:23 PM
Subject: RE: TCR Cable issue.
Dear Giant,
It has come to my attention that the
cable routing from the front derailleur on my 2018 TCR has been rubbing against
the axle of my cranks, this has lead to a clear line of wear on the axle.
As it happens the powermeter for my bicycle is located inside the axle of the
cranks. The power meter now no longer works, and I am left with a few
different issues.
- My powermeter is broken
- My axle has a wear line
and this is a weak spot (in addition to having damaged the powermeter
part)
- The cable is obviously
also slightly worn, and as easy as this is to replace, it will inevitable
happen again.
I fear I may have stumbled upon a design
flaw that is leaving me with a fair few problems, both financial and in terms
of use / performance.
I purchased the bike in Australia however
I am now in Europe preparing for a number of UCI races, and will require the
bike (and powermeter) for preparation as well as training camp in mid Feb in
Spain and the first races of the season in Greece at the end of Feb.
Please find attached some photos of the
issues.
Any help you may be able to provide would
be much appreciated.
Kind Regards.
Simeon Green
PS: also please find attached photo of
serial number and full bike.